Laws
how much they eat and drink? There is nothing at which the sex is more
likely to take offence. For women are accustomed to creep into dark
places, and when dragged out into the light they will exert their
utmost powers of resistance, and be far too much for the legislator. And
therefore, as I said before, in most places they will not endure to have
the truth spoken without raising a tremendous outcry, but in this state
perhaps they may. And if we may assume that our whole discussion about
the state has not been mere idle talk, I should like to prove to you,
if you will consent to listen, that this institution is good and proper;
but if you had rather not, I will refrain.
CLEINIAS: There is nothing which we should both of us like better,
Stranger, than to hear what you have to say.
ATHENIAN: Very good; and you must not be surprised if I go back a
little, for we have plenty of leisure, and there is nothing to prevent
us from considering in every point of view the subject of law.
CLEINIAS: True.
ATHENIAN: Then let us return once more to what we were saying at first.
Every man should understand that the human race either had no beginning
at all, and will never have an end, but always will be and has been; or
that it began an immense while ago.
CLEINIAS: Certainly.
ATHENIAN: Well, and have there not been constitutions and destructions
of states, and all sorts of pursuits both orderly and disorderly, and
diverse desires of meats and drinks always, and in all the world, and
all sorts of changes of the seasons in which animals may be expected to
have undergone innumerable transformations of themselves?
CLEINIAS: No doubt.
ATHENIAN: And may we not suppose that vines appeared, which had
previously no existence, and also olives, and the gifts of Demeter
and her daughter, of which one Triptolemus was the minister, and that,
before these existed, animals took to devouring each other as they do
still?
CLEINIAS: True.
ATHENIAN: Again, the practice of men sacrificing one another still
exists among many nations; while, on the other hand, we hear of other
human beings who did not even venture to taste the flesh of a cow and
had no animal sacrifices, but only cakes and fruits dipped in honey,
and similar pure offerings, but no flesh of animals; from these they
abstained under the idea that they ought not to eat them, and might not
stain the altars of the Gods with blood. For in those days men are said
to have lived a sort of Orphic life, having the use of all lifeless
things, but abstaining from all living things.
CLEINIAS: Such has been the constant tradition, and is very likely true.
ATHENIAN: Some one might say to us, What is the drift of all this?
CLEINIAS: A very pertinent question, Stranger.
ATHENIAN: And therefore I will endeavour, Cleinias, if I can, to draw
the natural inference.
CLEINIAS: Proceed.
ATHENIAN: I see that among men all things depend upon three wants and
desires, of which the end is virtue, if they are rightly led by them, or
the opposite if wrongly. Now these are eating and drinking, which begin
at birth--every animal has a natural desire for them, and is violently
excited, and rebels against him who says that he must not satisfy
all his pleasures and appetites, and get rid of all the corresponding
pains--and the third and greatest and sharpest want and desire breaks
out last, and is the fire of sexual lust, which kindles in men every
species of wantonness and madness. And these three disorders we must
endeavour to master by the three great principles of fear and law and
right reason; turning them away from that which is called pleasantest
to the best, using the Muses and the Gods who preside over contests to
extinguish their increase and influx.
But to return:--After marriage let us speak of the birth of children,
and after their birth of their nurture and education. In the course
of discussion the several laws will be perfected, and we shall at
last arrive at the common tables. Whether such associations are to be
confined to men, or extended to women also, we shall see better when we
approach and take a nearer view of them; and we may then determine what
previous institutions are required and will have to precede them. As I
said before, we shall see them more in detail, and shall be better able
to lay down the laws which are proper or suited to them.
CLEINIAS: Very true.
ATHENIAN: Let us keep in mind the words which have now been spoken; for
hereafter there may be need of them.
CLEINIAS: What do you bid us keep in mind?
ATHENIAN: That which we comprehended under the three words--first,
eating, secondly, drinking, thirdly, the excitement of love.
CLEINIAS: We shall be sure to remember, Stranger.
ATHENIAN: Very good. Then let us now proceed to marriage, and teach
persons in what way they shall beget children, threatening them, if they
disobey, with the terrors of the law.
CLEINIAS: What do you mean?
ATHENIAN: The bride and bridegroom should consider that they are to
produce for the state the best and fairest specimens of children which
they can. Now all men who are associated in any action always succeed
when they attend and give their mind to what they are doing, but when
they do not give their mind or have no mind, they fail; wherefore
let the bridegroom give his mind to the bride and to the begetting of
children, and the bride in like manner give her mind to the bridegroom,
and particularly at the time when their children are not yet born. And
let the women whom we have chosen be the overseers of such matters, and
let them in whatever number, large or small, and at whatever time the
magistrates may command, assemble every day in the temple of Eileithyia
during a third part of the day, and being there assembled, let them
inform one another of any one whom they see, whether man or woman, of
those who are begetting children, disregarding the ordinances given at
the time when the nuptial sacrifices and ceremonies were performed. Let
the begetting of children and the supervision of those who are begetting
them continue ten years and no longer, during the time when marriage is
fruitful. But if any continue without children up to this time, let them
take counsel with their kindred and with the women holding the office
of overseer and be divorced for their mutual benefit. If, however,
any dispute arises about what is proper and for the interest of either
party, they shall choose ten of the guardians of the law and abide
by their permission and appointment. The women who preside over
these matters shall enter into the houses of the young, and partly by
admonitions and partly by threats make them give over their folly and
error: if they persist, let the women go and tell the guardians of
the law, and the guardians shall prevent them. But if they too cannot
prevent them, they shall bring the matter before the people; and let
them write up their names and make oath that they cannot reform such and
such an one; and let him who is thus written up, if he cannot in a court
of law convict those who have inscribed his name, be deprived of the
privileges of a citizen in the following respects:--let him not go to
weddings nor to the thanksgivings after the birth of children; and if he
go, let any one who pleases strike him with impunity; and let the same
regulations hold about women: let not a woman be allowed to appear
abroad, or receive honour, or go to nuptial and birthday festivals, if
she in like manner be written up as acting disorderly and cannot obtain
a verdict. And if, when they themselves have done begetting children
according to the law, a man or woman have connexion with another man
or woman who are still begetting children, let the same penalties be
inflicted upon them as upon those who are still having a family; and
when the time for procreation has passed let the man or woman who
refrains in such matters be held in esteem, and let those who do not
refrain be held in the contrary of esteem--that is to say, disesteem.
Now, if the greater part of mankind behave modestly, the enactments of
law may be left to slumber; but, if they are disorderly, the enactments
having been passed, let them be carried into execution. To every man the
first year is the beginning of life, and the time of birth ought to
be written down in the temples of their fathers as the beginning of
existence to every child, whether boy or girl. Let every phratria have
inscribed on a whited wall the names of the successive archons by whom
the years are reckoned. And near to them let the living members of the
phratria be inscribed, and when they depart life let them be erased. The
limit of marriageable ages for a woman shall be from sixteen to twenty
years at the longest,--for a man, from thirty to thirty-five years; and
let a woman hold office at forty, and a man at thirty years. Let a man
go out to war from twenty to sixty years, and for a woman, if there
appear any need to make use of her in military service, let the time of
service be after she shall have brought forth children up to fifty years
of age; and let regard be had to what is possible and suitable to each.
BOOK VII.
And now, assuming children of both sexes to have been born, it will
be proper for us to consider, in the next place, their nurture and
education; this cannot be left altogether unnoticed, and yet may be
thought a subject fitted rather for precept and admonition than for
law. In private life there are many little things, not always apparent,
arising out of the pleasures and pains and desires of individuals, which
run counter to the intention of the legislator, and make the characters
of the citizens various and dissimilar:--this is an evil in states; for
by reason of their smallness and frequent occurrence, there would be an
unseemliness and want of propriety in making them penal by law; and if
made penal, they are the destruction of the written law because mankind
get the habit of frequently transgressing the law in small matters. The
result is that you cannot legislate about them, and still less can you
be silent. I speak somewhat darkly, but I shall endeavour also to bring
my wares into the light of day, for I acknowledge that at present there
is a want of clearness in what I am saying.
CLEINIAS: Very true.
ATHENIAN. Am I not right in maintaining that a good education is that
which tends most to the improvement of mind and body?
CLEINIAS: Undoubtedly.
ATHENIAN: And nothing can be plainer than that the fairest bodies are
those which grow up from infancy in the best and straightest manner?
CLEINIAS: Certainly.
ATHENIAN: And do we not further observe that the first shoot of every
living thing is by far the greatest and fullest? Many will even contend
that a man at twenty-five does not reach twice the height which he
attained at five.
CLEINIAS: True.
ATHENIAN: Well, and is not rapid growth without proper and abundant
exercise the source endless evils in the body?
CLEINIAS: Yes.
ATHENIAN: And the body should have the most exercise when it receives
most nourishment?
CLEINIAS: But, Stranger, are we to impose this great amount of exercise
upon newly-born infants?
ATHENIAN: Nay, rather on the bodies of infants still unborn.
CLEINIAS: What do you mean, my good sir? In the process of gestation?
ATHENIAN: Exactly. I am not at all surprised that you have never
heard of this very peculiar sort of gymnastic applied to such little
creatures, which, although strange, I will endeavour to explain to you.
CLEINIAS: By all means.
ATHENIAN: The practice is more easy for us to understand than for you,
by reason of certain amusements which are carried to excess by us at
Athens. Not only boys, but often older persons, are in the habit of