Meno
is not knowledge,--in that case will it be taught or not? or, as we were
just now saying, 'remembered'? For there is no use in disputing about
the name. But is virtue taught or not? or rather, does not every one see
that knowledge alone is taught?
MENO: I agree.
SOCRATES: Then if virtue is knowledge, virtue will be taught?
MENO: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Then now we have made a quick end of this question: if virtue
is of such a nature, it will be taught; and if not, not?
MENO: Certainly.
SOCRATES: The next question is, whether virtue is knowledge or of
another species?
MENO: Yes, that appears to be the question which comes next in order.
SOCRATES: Do we not say that virtue is a good?--This is a hypothesis
which is not set aside.
MENO: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Now, if there be any sort of good which is distinct from
knowledge, virtue may be that good; but if knowledge embraces all good,
then we shall be right in thinking that virtue is knowledge?
MENO: True.
SOCRATES: And virtue makes us good?
MENO: Yes.
SOCRATES: And if we are good, then we are profitable; for all good
things are profitable?
MENO: Yes.
SOCRATES: Then virtue is profitable?
MENO: That is the only inference.
SOCRATES: Then now let us see what are the things which severally profit
us. Health and strength, and beauty and wealth--these, and the like of
these, we call profitable?
MENO: True.
SOCRATES: And yet these things may also sometimes do us harm: would you
not think so?
MENO: Yes.
SOCRATES: And what is the guiding principle which makes them profitable
or the reverse? Are they not profitable when they are rightly used, and
hurtful when they are not rightly used?
MENO: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Next, let us consider the goods of the soul: they are
temperance, justice, courage, quickness of apprehension, memory,
magnanimity, and the like?
MENO: Surely.
SOCRATES: And such of these as are not knowledge, but of another sort,
are sometimes profitable and sometimes hurtful; as, for example, courage
wanting prudence, which is only a sort of confidence? When a man has no
sense he is harmed by courage, but when he has sense he is profited?
MENO: True.
SOCRATES: And the same may be said of temperance and quickness of
apprehension; whatever things are learned or done with sense are
profitable, but when done without sense they are hurtful?
MENO: Very true.
SOCRATES: And in general, all that the soul attempts or endures, when
under the guidance of wisdom, ends in happiness; but when she is under
the guidance of folly, in the opposite?
MENO: That appears to be true.
SOCRATES: If then virtue is a quality of the soul, and is admitted to be
profitable, it must be wisdom or prudence, since none of the things of
the soul are either profitable or hurtful in themselves, but they are
all made profitable or hurtful by the addition of wisdom or of folly;
and therefore if virtue is profitable, virtue must be a sort of wisdom
or prudence?
MENO: I quite agree.
SOCRATES: And the other goods, such as wealth and the like, of which we
were just now saying that they are sometimes good and sometimes evil,
do not they also become profitable or hurtful, accordingly as the soul
guides and uses them rightly or wrongly; just as the things of the soul
herself are benefited when under the guidance of wisdom and harmed by
folly?
MENO: True.
SOCRATES: And the wise soul guides them rightly, and the foolish soul
wrongly.
MENO: Yes.
SOCRATES: And is not this universally true of human nature? All other
things hang upon the soul, and the things of the soul herself hang upon
wisdom, if they are to be good; and so wisdom is inferred to be that
which profits--and virtue, as we say, is profitable?
MENO: Certainly.
SOCRATES: And thus we arrive at the conclusion that virtue is either
wholly or partly wisdom?
MENO: I think that what you are saying, Socrates, is very true.
SOCRATES: But if this is true, then the good are not by nature good?
MENO: I think not.
SOCRATES: If they had been, there would assuredly have been discerners
of characters among us who would have known our future great men; and on
their showing we should have adopted them, and when we had got them, we
should have kept them in the citadel out of the way of harm, and set a
stamp upon them far rather than upon a piece of gold, in order that no
one might tamper with them; and when they grew up they would have been
useful to the state?
MENO: Yes, Socrates, that would have been the right way.
SOCRATES: But if the good are not by nature good, are they made good by
instruction?
MENO: There appears to be no other alternative, Socrates. On the
supposition that virtue is knowledge, there can be no doubt that virtue
is taught.
SOCRATES: Yes, indeed; but what if the supposition is erroneous?
MENO: I certainly thought just now that we were right.
SOCRATES: Yes, Meno; but a principle which has any soundness should
stand firm not only just now, but always.
MENO: Well; and why are you so slow of heart to believe that knowledge
is virtue?
SOCRATES: I will try and tell you why, Meno. I do not retract the
assertion that if virtue is knowledge it may be taught; but I fear that
I have some reason in doubting whether virtue is knowledge: for consider
now and say whether virtue, and not only virtue but anything that is
taught, must not have teachers and disciples?
MENO: Surely.
SOCRATES: And conversely, may not the art of which neither teachers nor
disciples exist be assumed to be incapable of being taught?
MENO: True; but do you think that there are no teachers of virtue?
SOCRATES: I have certainly often enquired whether there were any, and
taken great pains to find them, and have never succeeded; and many have
assisted me in the search, and they were the persons whom I thought the
most likely to know. Here at the moment when he is wanted we fortunately
have sitting by us Anytus, the very person of whom we should make
enquiry; to him then let us repair. In the first place, he is the son
of a wealthy and wise father, Anthemion, who acquired his wealth, not
by accident or gift, like Ismenias the Theban (who has recently made
himself as rich as Polycrates), but by his own skill and industry, and
who is a well-conditioned, modest man, not insolent, or overbearing, or
annoying; moreover, this son of his has received a good education, as
the Athenian people certainly appear to think, for they choose him to
fill the highest offices. And these are the sort of men from whom you
are likely to learn whether there are any teachers of virtue, and who
they are. Please, Anytus, to help me and your friend Meno in answering
our question, Who are the teachers? Consider the matter thus: If we
wanted Meno to be a good physician, to whom should we send him? Should
we not send him to the physicians?
ANYTUS: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Or if we wanted him to be a good cobbler, should we not send
him to the cobblers?
ANYTUS: Yes.
SOCRATES: And so forth?
ANYTUS: Yes.
SOCRATES: Let me trouble you with one more question. When we say that we
should be right in sending him to the physicians if we wanted him to be
a physician, do we mean that we should be right in sending him to those
who profess the art, rather than to those who do not, and to those who
demand payment for teaching the art, and profess to teach it to any one
who will come and learn? And if these were our reasons, should we not be
right in sending him?
ANYTUS: Yes.
SOCRATES: And might not the same be said of flute-playing, and of the
other arts? Would a man who wanted to make another a flute-player refuse
to send him to those who profess to teach the art for money, and be
plaguing other persons to give him instruction, who are not professed
teachers and who never had a single disciple in that branch of knowledge
which he wishes him to acquire--would not such conduct be the height of
folly?
ANYTUS: Yes, by Zeus, and of ignorance too.
SOCRATES: Very good. And now you are in a position to advise with me
about my friend Meno. He has been telling me, Anytus, that he desires
to attain that kind of wisdom and virtue by which men order the state or
the house, and honour their parents, and know when to receive and when
to send away citizens and strangers, as a good man should. Now, to
whom should he go in order that he may learn this virtue? Does not the
previous argument imply clearly that we should send him to those who
profess and avouch that they are the common teachers of all Hellas, and
are ready to impart instruction to any one who likes, at a fixed price?
ANYTUS: Whom do you mean, Socrates?
SOCRATES: You surely know, do you not, Anytus, that these are the people
whom mankind call Sophists?
ANYTUS: By Heracles, Socrates, forbear! I only hope that no friend or
kinsman or acquaintance of mine, whether citizen or stranger, will ever
be so mad as to allow himself to be corrupted by them; for they are
a manifest pest and corrupting influence to those who have to do with
them.
SOCRATES: What, Anytus? Of all the people who profess that they know how
to do men good, do you mean to say that these are the only ones who not
only do them no good, but positively corrupt those who are entrusted to
them, and in return for this disservice have the face to demand money?
Indeed, I cannot believe you; for I know of a single man, Protagoras,
who made more out of his craft than the illustrious Pheidias, who
created such noble works, or any ten other statuaries. How could that
be? A mender of old shoes, or patcher up of clothes, who made the shoes
or clothes worse than he received them, could not have remained thirty
days undetected, and would very soon have starved; whereas during more
than forty years, Protagoras was corrupting all Hellas, and sending his
disciples from him worse than he received them, and he was never found
out. For, if I am not mistaken, he was about seventy years old at his
death, forty of which were spent in the practice of his profession;
and during all that time he had a good reputation, which to this day he
retains: and not only Protagoras, but many others are well spoken of;
some who lived before him, and others who are still living. Now, when
you say that they deceived and corrupted the youth, are they to be
supposed to have corrupted them consciously or unconsciously? Can those
who were deemed by many to be the wisest men of Hellas have been out of
their minds?
ANYTUS: Out of their minds! No, Socrates; the young men who gave their
money to them were out of their minds, and their relations and guardians
who entrusted their youth to the care of these men were still more out
of their minds, and most of all, the cities who allowed them to come in,
and did not drive them out, citizen and stranger alike.
SOCRATES: Has any of the Sophists wronged you, Anytus? What makes you so
angry with them?
ANYTUS: No, indeed, neither I nor any of my belongings has ever had, nor
would I suffer them to have, anything to do with them.
SOCRATES: Then you are entirely unacquainted with them?
ANYTUS: And I have no wish to be acquainted.
SOCRATES: Then, my dear friend, how can you know whether a thing is good
or bad of which you are wholly ignorant?
ANYTUS: Quite well; I am sure that I know what manner of men these are,
whether I am acquainted with them or not.
SOCRATES: You must be a diviner, Anytus, for I really cannot make out,
judging from your own words, how, if you are not acquainted with them,
you know about them. But I am not enquiring of you who are the teachers
who will corrupt Meno (let them be, if you please, the Sophists); I only
ask you to tell him who there is in this great city who will teach him